View Full Version : Teachers, check this out
impeccableman
04-30-2008, 06:29 AM
Teachers,
"The need to replace lost fluid is a great deal more important."
Q1:Can I put "the" before "lost fluid"? Does its meaning change?
Q2: Is it wrong to put an adjective after "a great deal"? ( i.e. ...a great deal important)
"Almost every day I see this happening, and God knows how many times I've witnessed pedestrians who think that because the mini-bus has stopped, it must be all right to cross."
Q3: Pete said that it is OK to use "thinking" instead of "who think", but, is "think" a stative verb? If it is, in this case, why does the meaning of the sentence remain unchange if I use "thinking" instead of "who think"?
Any other cases with "thinking" which has the other meaning?
Q4: Pete said that I could replace "happening" with "happen", an infinitive form. Could you tell me under what conditions I can use "an infinitive form", like the one above? I wonder if "happen" is used, would it affect the agreement of the sentence? ( Very often, when talking about facts, I put singular verb form after "this" and plural verb form after "these". Is this not a must? Could you clarify my misconceptions?)
archfiends
04-30-2008, 07:58 AM
Teachers,
"The need to replace lost fluid is a great deal more important."
Q1:Can I put "the" before "lost fluid"? Does its meaning change?
Q2: Is it wrong to put an adjective after "a great deal"? ( i.e. ...a great deal important)
"Almost every day I see this happening, and God knows how many times I've witnessed pedestrians who think that because the mini-bus has stopped, it must be all right to cross."
Q3: Pete said that it is OK to use "thinking" instead of "who think", but, is "think" a stative verb? If it is, in this case, why does the meaning of the sentence remain unchange if I use "thinking" instead of "who think"?
Any other cases with "thinking" which has the other meaning?
Q4: Pete said that I could replace "happening" with "happen", an infinitive form. Could you tell me under what conditions I can use "an infinitive form", like the one above? I wonder if "happen" is used, would it affect the agreement of the sentence? ( Very often, when talking about facts, I put singular verb form after "this" and plural verb form after "these". Is this not a must? Could you clarify my misconceptions?)
Personally, I beta pete is correct in both Q3 and Q4.
Q3, both think and thinking here means hold an idea or consideration, and thinking even better because of less different meanings.
however,the sentence seems not completed.
What you have witnessed pedestrians? Subordinate clause here is using for explaining and describing the pedestrians rather than what you witnessed.
Q4: happens here is much fitting than the happening, we seldom use happending as process verb when it is in everday, except when we say ever-happening(I consider ever-happen may Ok too), happen already contained the implication of either beginning or processing. If we use happening we are exactly imply some particular thing is happening.
Your concern about singular verb form and plural verb form is acute. I figure when we speaking, I mean in verbal form, we less care about this, but in formal writing, it is something necessary.
I hope Pete specify the reason more proper than me.
archfiends
04-30-2008, 08:21 AM
In addition ,Q4 should use happen but not happens.
As phrase see to has a particular meaning, all infinitive form followed word see should elide the word to as to distinguish from see to and as an wonted usage.
Teachers,
"The need to replace lost fluid is a great deal more important."
Q1:Can I put "the" before "lost fluid"? Does its meaning change?
If in your discourse you have already talked about some fluid being lost, then you would later use "the lost fluid" to refer to the fluid that was previously mentioned. If you are making a general statement about any time some fluid has been lost, omit "the".
Q2: Is it wrong to put an adjective after "a great deal"? ( i.e. ...a great deal important)
The example you show sounds wrong. You can put "a great deal" before the comparative form of an adjective:
- He is a great deal happier now that summer vacation has arrived.
"Almost every day I see this happening, and God knows how many times I've witnessed pedestrians who think that because the mini-bus has stopped, it must be all right to cross."
Q3: Pete said that it is OK to use "thinking" instead of "who think", but, is "think" a stative verb? If it is, in this case, why does the meaning of the sentence remain unchange if I use "thinking" instead of "who think"?
Any other cases with "thinking" which has the other meaning?
I had assumed that you meant that the people were looking at the current situation and thought that because that particular bus was stopped, they could cross the street. In that case, "who think" and "thinking" mean the same.
If you meant that they had a belief that whenever a vehicle was stopped they could cross without checking the light, you are correct: "thinking" would have a different meaning, i.e. it would be referring to this particular incident.
Q4: Pete said that I could replace "happening" with "happen", an infinitive form. Could you tell me under what conditions I can use "an infinitive form", like the one above? I wonder if "happen" is used, would it affect the agreement of the sentence? ( Very often, when talking about facts, I put singular verb form after "this" and plural verb form after "these". Is this not a must? Could you clarify my misconceptions?)
When "this" is the subject, of course it is singular, so its verb would take an "s" in the present tense. The structure of this sentence is different. The word "this" is the direct object of the verb "see", and the verb form, infinitive or participle, modifies the word "this". It might help if you think of a similar sentence that uses the same construction with a different pronoun so the case and structure are more easily seen:
- I saw her stumble at the curb.
Because "her" is clearly an object, you wouldn't try to say, "stumbles". Well, "I see this happen" is exactly the same construction.
In another sentence with a somewhat different meaning, you would use "happens":
- The police are warning pedestrians that they may be struck if they cross without following the traffic signals, even if traffic appears to be stopped; I see {= understand} that this happens frequently. {Note that in this sentence, you are not saying that you have ever observed anyone doing this; it is a different meaning of "see" from the sentence you originally gave. Here, of course, the words "this happens" are the subject and predicate of their own clause.}
impeccableman
04-30-2008, 10:29 PM
archfiends, Pete, thx a lot.
archfiends, you said that "to" is omitted to avoid confusion.
I have checked my dictionary and there is an example which reads,
"He was seen to enter the building about the time the crime was committed."
Q1:Can archfiends, Pete or Rusty comment on the above sentence?
Q2:On a related note, Could I change the sentence into " He was seen entering the building...." Is there any difference between the two?
Q3: There is also an example which reads, "I saw you put the key in your pocket." Can I put "to" before "put the key"? Can I use "putting" instead of "put"? Are there any differences among them?
Q4: Pete, you've said that the verb form, infinitive or participle could be used to modify the direct object. But now I could only think of examples with the use of infinitive, present participle and past participle.
-I see this happen. ( How about "I saw this happen."?)
-I saw him bullying others.
-I saw him molested.
Do you mean that different verb forms(the 12 tenses?) could be used? Could you give me some examples on this?
archfiends
05-01-2008, 02:17 AM
archfiends, Pete, thx a lot.
archfiends, you said that "to" is omitted to avoid confusion.
I have checked my dictionary and there is an example which reads,
"He was seen to enter the building about the time the crime was committed."
Q1:Can archfiends, Pete or Rusty comment on the above sentence?
Q2:On a related note, Could I change the sentence into " He was seen entering the building...." Is there any difference between the two?
Q3: There is also an example which reads, "I saw you put the key in your pocket." Can I put "to" before "put the key"? Can I use "putting" instead of "put"? Are there any differences among them?
Q4: Pete, you've said that the verb form, infinitive or participle could be used to modify the direct object. But now I could only think of examples with the use of infinitive, present participle and past participle.
-I see this happen. ( How about "I saw this happen."?)
-I saw him bullying others.
-I saw him molested.
Do you mean that different verb forms(the 12 tenses?) could be used? Could you give me some examples on this?
in Q1, this can be something a prove that "to" is omitted in ordinary usage.
The sentence :
"He was seen to enter the building about the time the crime was committed." can be restructured as:
" Someone saw him enter the building about the time the crime was committed."
(we don't use saw to do or seen do, even though it seem a little different in semantic, but not really.)
It seems when we use passive form, we don't omit "to", because the particular phrase see to has no passive form, no confusion.
Q2: It seems there are slight difference between them. Someone told me seen to do something usually used when something not happened yet, but ready to happen and will happen and in most time it finally happened(how can something not happened be seen... -_-!), seen doing used when something is happening.
I don't agree, I consider seen to do and saw do is just an alternative in form when voice shifted, so as seen doing and saw doing.
You can find some hinters about seen doing in Q3.
Q3: If put is an durative verb, you can use saw someone puting something, but I don't think it is.
Saw someone doing someting or seen doing meanly used to discribe or emphasize the continuing activity, only use on durative verb.
Q4: I failed to catch the question.
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