preposition

[sejpdw]

Roosevelt was elected to the residentcy during the Great Depression of the 1930s, at a time when more thant 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work.

1. What does 'at a time when' refer to?
a. the Great Depression
b. the 1930s

2. Why are used 'during' before 'the Great Depression' and 'at' before 'a time'?

3. When it comes to tense, why are used 'had failed' and 'were'?

[Marius Hancu]

1. None of your suspects. It means at a moment in time.

2. Because the Depression is a long time, a background, and the other is a moment/instant.

3. Because the banks failed before that time, while being out of work was at that time.

[Bridget]

1. What does 'at a time when' refer to?


"When", is the meaning.

[OddThomas]

One quick correction, "at a time," meaning when, refers to the period of the Great Depression.

[Bridget]

One quick correction, "at a time," meaning when, refers to the period of the Great Depression.

I think it refers to a point or period within the Great Depression.

[OddThomas]

That may be more than a matter of interpretation. The Great Depression was that time "when more than 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work."

I think the writer's diction is poor and the preposition "at" should have been left out. The presence of "at" leaves the reader mentally searching for the precise moment within the Depression when the total number of bank failures exceeded 5,000 and the number of people unemployed reached into the thousands. It is illogical further to expect Roosevelt to have been elected at any point in time other than November, 1932.

A more sensitive writer would not have asked this mathematical impossibility of his readers.

[Bridget]

The Great Depression was that time "when more than 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work."


Did the Great Depression only gain that label after "5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work."?

[Bridget]

That may be more than a matter of interpretation. The Great Depression was that time "when more than 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work."

I think the writer's diction is poor and the preposition "at" should have been left out. The presence of "at" leaves the reader mentally searching for the precise moment within the Depression when the total number of bank failures exceeded 5,000 and the number of people unemployed reached into the thousands. It is illogical further to expect Roosevelt to have been elected at any point in time other than November, 1932.

A more sensitive writer would not have asked this mathematical impossibility of his readers.


Not at all. If you know anything about the "New Deal", you can understand why the writer chose to use the preposition there.


Roosevelt was elected to the presidency during the Great Depression of the 1930s, at a time when more thant 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work. A timely election, wouldn't you say?

[OddThomas]

Major historical events are seldom adequately named at the time they occur. While World War I, called The Great War at the time, only took on its modern name with the occurrence of a second world war, no one can say with certainty who applied the term "The Great Depression" to the global recession of the Thirties, and when. The genius probably did not pounce on the failure of the 5,000th bank.

Your quip about the New Deal is idiotic.

[Bridget]

Roosevelt was elected to the presidency during the Great Depression of the 1930s, at a time when more than 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work. A timely election, wouldn't you say? A welcome choice of president, for many.

---------------

Roosevelt was elected to the presidency during the Great Depression of the 1930s, at a time (during that depression) when more than 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work.

This can have the same meaning:

Roosevelt was elected to the presidency during the Great Depression of the 1930s, at the point (during that depression) when more than 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work.

Your reading is incorrect.

[MrPedantic]

Roosevelt was elected to the residentcy during the Great Depression of the 1930s, at a time when more thant 5,000 banks had failed and thousands of people were out of work.


I would say that "at a time" refers back to "Roosevelt was elected": it presents the additional information that, at the time of that election, many banks had failed, and many people were unemployed.

Best wishes,

MrP

[Bridget]

I would say that "at a time" refers back to "Roosevelt was elected": it presents the additional information that, at the time of that election, many banks had failed, and many people were unemployed.

Best wishes,

MrP

Exactly, MrP. And it also extends to the idea that his election brought about a turning point and/or was timely.

[Bridget]

OT's gone all quiet. ;)

[OddThomas]

I've said my bit, explained my analysis, confronted misperceptions, and am satisfied I've covered the waterfront.

[Bridget]

I've said my bit, explained my analysis, confronted misperceptions, and am satisfied I've covered the waterfront.

So you still disagree with MrP's and yours truly's interpretation, do you?

[MrPedantic]

OT's gone all quiet. ;)

So you still disagree with MrP's and yours truly's interpretation, do you?

What's the problem? Marius has given his answer; OT has given his; I've given mine; you've given yours.

I'm sure if Sej has any further questions, they'll be posted in due course.

MrP

[Bridget]

The problem is this:


Your quip about the New Deal is idiotic.

[MrPedantic]

The problem is this:


Your quip about the New Deal is idiotic.



May all your "problems" be as minor.

MrP

[Bridget]

Would you have allowed such a comment were you moderating?

[OddThomas]

This is not a forum for either economics or politics.

That notwithstanding, I must reject the implication that Mr. Roosevelt's election was in any way combined with the New Deal as a logical and physical impossibility since the New Deal was a program begun by Mr. Roosevelt only after he assumed office.

Second, bank failures per year in the US from 1929 through 1933 were: 1929 407
1930 1,151
1931 1,707
1932 1,035
1933 497 (1st quarter up to the national bank Holiday)
Approximately 4,300 banks failed from mid-1929 to year-end 1932, or just over 4,000 by Roosevelt's election in early November 1932. This data is from a draft paper titled, Correspondent Clearing and the Collapse of the Banking System, 1930 to 1933 (http://www.econ.berkeley.edu/%7Eeichengr/corresp_richardson_9-15-06.pdf), by Gary Richardson, University of California at Irvine, May 2006. The author may be reached via email at garyr@uci.edu.

According to Wikipedia, in all of 1933, 4,004 banks failed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal) or were closed, bringing the total to over 8,000 by year-end 1933. Simple interpolation puts the 5,000 mark somewhere in the middle of April, 1933. The point here is that Mr. Roosevelt was not elected at the time of the 5,000th bank failure either.

Over all, the writer of the sentence has played fast and loose with diction and fact, a trait of secondary school and college paper writers. This can be forgiven and a few points taken off if the paper as a whole suffers from this trait.

[MrPedantic]

An informative excursus.

MrP

[Bridget]

Hypocrisy.

[MrPedantic]

Hypocrisy.

On the contrary. I found OT's post extremely informative.

MrP

[Bridget]

On the contrary. I found OT's post extremely informative.

MrP

Two peas in a pod, you are.