Tense : Past VS Past Perfect

[Kim Jun-jin]

Hello Teachers!

As I know, past tense needs a specific time. I wonder if 'two years earlier' could be a spicific time. My material says that Carmen 'had given up'..., but I think there is no reason to use past perfect. Which one is right?

Carmen [had given up/ gave up] hope of finding her pet parrot, Raquel, who [had disappeard / disappeared] from the backyard of her house two years earlier.

Have a good day!!

[OddThomas]

Well, it depends. When did Carmen give up hope?

If Carmen gave up hope either back when her parrot was lost, or before some other past event not mentioned in the sentence, then past perfect is the better choice.

If Carmen only recently gave up hope, then simple past is the better choice.

Example of the first:Carmen had given up hope...when to her shock the little green rascal appeared at her kitchen window, wet, cold, and looking not a little annoyed.
Example of the second:Carmen gave up hope.... She sat down and wept her final tears over the only two photographs she had ever taken of Scooter.

[Pete]

Hello Teachers!

As I know, past tense needs a specific time. I wonder if 'two years earlier' could be a spicific time. My material says that Carmen 'had given up'..., but I think there is no reason to use past perfect. Which one is right?

Carmen [had given up/ gave up] hope of finding her pet parrot, Raquel, who [had disappeard / disappeared] from the backyard of her house two years earlier.

Have a good day!!
(This comment applies to OddThomas's first option; the purpose is to discuss the tense of the second verb.)

Consider that the past perfect tense is used to distinguish two different times, both in the past, when particular things happen. By far the most common use is to put the verb of the more recent happening in the past tense and to put the verb of the earlier happening in the past perfect tense.

It is a surprising fact (and one you don't often see mentioned in elementary discussions of English grammar) that occasionally you will see the more recently happening verb in the past perfect tense and the earlier happening verb in the past tense. Your example sentence is a case where such a use is natural. First of all, presume that this sentence comes in a narration where you are using the simple past tense to show things that are happening as the story progresses. You want to set the scene by mentioning that some time before the time of the story, Carmen had given up hope, and even earlier than that, the pet had disappeared. It is quite correct to express this with the following sentence,

- Carmen had given up hope of finding her pet parrot, Raquel, who disappeared from the backyard of her house two years earlier.

It would not be wrong to put both of those verbs in the past perfect tense, but using the same tense might make people think they happened at the same time, at least until they read "two years earlier". Using the simple past for the second verb emphasizes that the two verbs take place at different times, even though the second precedes the first.

[Marius Hancu]

I agree with Pete's comments on:

- Carmen had given up hope of finding her pet parrot, Raquel, who disappeared from the backyard of her house two years earlier.

Also, in this sentence the 2nd part is a relative subordinate, in which tense simplification (see Swan) feels right, thus:

past perfect -> simple past

However, OddThomas's both options are valid.

[OddThomas]

Really instructive elaboration, fellows. Thanks.