What tense is this sentence?

[ruby2zdy]

"Mary is happy to have hung out with an old friend." What throws me is the infinitive.

I can't find a usage of this type on the Web, although I know it's correct. Is it just present perfect? All the examples of present perfect that I've found would split the sentence into two: "Mary has hung out with an old friend. She is happy about this."

I've also read that there is a tense called perfect infinitive, but haven't seen examples supporting my sentence.

Thanks! :p

[OddThomas]

Yes, you have discovered the perfect infinitive (http://www.edufind.com/English/grammar/inf6.cfm). Well done. You should be proud to have made this discovery on your own.:)

[ruby2zdy]

Yes, you have discovered the perfect infinitive (http://www.edufind.com/English/grammar/inf6.cfm). Well done. You should be proud to have made this discovery on your own.

Oh! Thanks for the pat on the head <shuffle, shuffle>. :rolleyes: Now I can sleep!

Really -- I don't remember ever being taught the perfect infinitive and yet I use it, my cousin uses it, and my daughter-in-law uses it, which means that everyone in our respective high school English classes were taught to use it.

I used to work as an editor. Thank God no one asked me about this.

Thanks!

Ann

[OddThomas]

Forgive the elementary answer.:o I am accustomed to answering ESL students. Did you check the link? It, too, is very basic. But as you reported, the perfect infinitive is second nature to native speakers. We just don't seem to have noticed it.

[ruby2zdy]

Forgive the elementary answer.:o I am accustomed to answering ESL students. Did you check the link? It, too, is very basic. But as you reported, the perfect infinitive is second nature to native speakers. We just don't seem to have noticed it.

Oh, don't be embarrassed about the pat on the head. I like to get patted on the head. Yes, I did look at the link. It's a much better explanation than any I ran across.

At the 'infinitive' link, they have an example sentence: "I would like to have seen the Taj Mahal when I was in India." I was taught to say "I would have liked to see the Taj Mahal when I was in India". This one I remember being taught. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

[OddThomas]

Ahh, it depends on when the liking took place. The one certain thing is that would have liked to have seen is completely wrong, unless you can absolutely, positively construct a scenario in which you could defend it with your life.

I would like to have seen the Taj Mahal: You regret now not having seen it then.
I would like to have seen the Taj Mahal when I was in India, but we never arranged a trip to Agra during our travels around the country.I would have liked to see the Taj Mahal: You recall that you regretted missing it then.
I would have liked to see the Taj Mahal when I was in India, yet it was monsoon season and we were well advised to avoid the travel.

[Marius Hancu]

Indeed, a perfect infinitive:

"Mary is happy to have hung out with an old friend." [shows action in terms of hanging out up to the time of her considering it and being happy about it

The plain infinitive would be:

"Mary is happy to hung out with an old friend." [shows action in terms of hanging out possibly including in parallel with her considering it and being happy about it

Both plain infinitive and the perfect infinitive are a-temporal, i.e. they take they exact timing from the context:

"Mary was happy to have hung out with an old friend." [past meaning

"Mary is happy to have hung out with an old friend." [present meaning

"Mary will be happy to have hung out with an old friend." [future meaning, hanging out before some time in the future when she considers it and becomes happy "she will have done it" (i.e. "she did" it, in the future)

[Bridget]

The one certain thing is that would have liked to have seen is completely wrong, unless you can absolutely, positively construct a scenario in which you could defend it with your life.


Are these OK, OT?

1. "This has been done with very harmonic negotiations on contracts, er big operators er and our substantial savings. Many of us would have liked to have seen the savings that were made,..."

2. "No, I think that we would have liked to have seen more women, I would have liked to have stayed on the Shadow Cabinet, and I would have liked to have seen more women in the Shadow Cabinet,"

3. "The general standard of joiner work achieved by this company has improved considerably during the past four years. We would have liked to have seen , however, a better finish to the deck moulding, which showed some tooling marks."



I would like to have seen the Taj Mahal when I was in India, but we never arranged a trip to Agra during our travels around the country.
I would have liked to see the Taj Mahal when I was in India, yet it was monsoon season and we were well advised to avoid the travel.
Are both those synonymous with "I would have liked/enjoyed seeing the Taj Mahal when I was in India"?

[Bridget]

"Mary is happy to hung out with an old friend."

Not grammatical, Marius.

[Lucretia]

Hello ruby2zdy,

My 2 cents, just in case.

Is it just present perfect?
I've also read that there is a tense called perfect infinitive.

The concept of tense only refers to the main verb in the sentence, the infinitive is tenseless.

What tense is this sentence?
"Mary is happy to have hung out with an old friend."
It is the Present Simple, because the main verb, is, is in Present Simple.

Best wishes.

[ruby2zdy]

Ahh, it depends on when the liking took place. The one certain thing is that would have liked to have seen is completely wrong, unless you can absolutely, positively construct a scenario in which you could defend it with your life.

I would like to have seen the Taj Mahal: You regret now not having seen it then.
I would like to have seen the Taj Mahal when I was in India, but we never arranged a trip to Agra during our travels around the country.I would have liked to see the Taj Mahal: You recall that you regretted missing it then.
I would have liked to see the Taj Mahal when I was in India, yet it was monsoon season and we were well advised to avoid the travel.

Yes, I was aware of both forms. I just lazily didn't put the other one in my post. I'm going to get a taser & taze people who say "I would have liked to have seen...". Thanks to the caliber of how English has been taught since the mid-'70s, there are going to be a lot of people lying on the sidewalk. Thanks for all your help.

Ann

[Marius Hancu]

I would have liked to have seen ... [possible, IMO, but different: the seeing must have been performed before the act of considering liking; just a bit rare:

Say:

I would have liked (in 2001) to have seen it (earlier, say in 1998-1999)

[jirikoo]

Types of infinitives in accord with inflection:

to kick a ball - present infinitive, simple aspect (active voice)
to be kicking a ball - present infinitive, continuous aspect (active voice)
to be kicked into a head - present infinitive, simple aspect (passive voice)
-----------------
to have kicked a ball - perfect infinitive, simple aspect (active voice)
to have been kicking a ball - perfect infinitive, continuous aspect (active voice)
to have been kicked into a head - perfect infinitive, simple aspect (passive voice)

[jirikoo]

as someone has possibly mentioned, the perfect infinitives refer back in time before the the main verb in the main clause does

"he seemed to have failed in his exam"


note that perfect infinitives (so called bare infinitives) are abundantly used with auxiliary verbs thus modal verbs:

"He could have passed the exam"

or even in larger conditional sentences - third and mixed (more specifically in so called "result clauses")

"He could have passed the exam if he had studied"

[Bridget]

Marius, wouldn't it be a good idea to correct your errors?

I mentioned this one already.


"Mary is happy to hung out with an old friend."