Imperative in the reported speech

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I hope I will be able to explain my problem in english. Sorry if this gets a bit wordy :)

Before I start: The problem is about a grammatical phenomen I don`t know a english word for :) In german it`s "Konjunktiv". It might be possible it is called "Possibility form" or something. It`s a "modus" a verb can have to express that something is "possible" or "unreal".
"If I had more money, I could go swimming." In modern english you write "had" insted of "have" to say something is irreal or might be possible but once there was another way to express this. My question is about this way . I hope everybody is able t guess what I mean :)

I`m studying "reported speech" at the moment. It`s easy enough but I have one problem: It`s about the imperative in the reported speech in sentences introduced with "suggested" and "insisted". My book tells me this sentences were not builded with the usual "verb + object + infinitive"-construction (i.e. :He told me to read the book) but with a that-sentence.

i.e. :
direct speech : "Show me what you`ve written!"
reported speech: She insisted that he show her what he had written.

In a foot-note is remarked that it is "show" instead of "shows" in the second sentence, because it is an old grammatical form - the "Konjunktiv" I descriped above - which is rarly used in english nowadays.

OK! Finally, here is my question :) :

Do you use the "Konjunktiv" because of "insisted" or because the word "show" still has it`s old "Konjunkitv" ? Do I have to use the "Konjunktiv" everytime I make a sentence in reprted speech with "insisted/suggested"
or not.

i.e: I insisted that he doesn`t push the red button or
I insisted that he don`t push the red button.

Again, I hope you did understand me :)

thank you very much

Jörg

PS: As far as I know you could also say

I insisted that he should not push the red button.

[Rusty]

Before I start: The problem is about a grammatical phenomen I don`t know a english word for In german it`s "Konjunktiv". It might be possible it is called "Possibility form" or something. It`s a "modus" a verb can have to express that something is "possible" or "unreal". (I think we have two different things here: Subjunctive and Conditional).
"If I had more money, I could go swimming." (This is conditional). In modern english you write "had" insted of "have" to say something is irreal or might be possible but once there was another way to express this. (Another way, not as common, is "If I were to have more money, I could/would be able to/ go swimming).

My question is about this way . I hope everybody is able t guess what I mean

I`m studying "reported speech" at the moment. It`s easy enough but I have one problem: It`s about the imperative in the reported speech in sentences introduced with "suggested" and "insisted". My book tells me these sentences were not builded/(built) with the usual "verb + object + infinitive"-construction (i.e. :He told me to read the book) but with a that-sentence. (OK).

i.e. :
direct speech : "Show me what you`ve written!"
reported speech: She insisted that he show her what he had written.

In a foot-note is remarked that it is "show" instead of "shows" in the second sentence, because it is an old grammatical form - the "Konjunktiv" I descriped above - which is rarly used in english nowadays. (That is the subjunctive mood/form. It looks like the infinitive without "to").

OK! Finally, here is my question :

Do you use the "Konjunktiv" because of "insisted" (Yes) or because the word "show" still has it`s old "Konjunkitv" ? Do I have to use the "Konjunktiv" everytime I make a sentence in reprted speech with "insisted/suggested" (The Simple Present Subjunctive is still used in clauses beginning with that which express formal commands or requests. Example: They requested/insisted that she arrive early).


i.e: I insisted that he doesn`t push the red button or
I insisted that he don`t push the red button.
(The negative should be: I insisted that he not push the red button).

Again, I hope you did understand me (I hope so too).


PS: As far as I know you could also say

I insisted that he should not push the red button. (This is OK too).

[Anachronist]

The Simple Present Subjunctive is still used in clauses beginning with that which express formal commands or requests. Example: They requested/insisted that she arrive early).

Thank you very much! That was exactly what I'd wanted to know :)

Jörg

PS: If I got it right, it has to be:

"He orderd that he take (subjunctive) a break".
"He order that he should take (modal verb) a break"

instead of

"He ordered that he takes a break."

Do you use the subjunctive in "day-to-day-language" too or is it restricted to official or even written language? (and is there a phrase "day to day language" ? :D )

[Rusty]

"He ordered that he take (subjunctive) a break". (Correct).
"He ordered that he should take (modal verb) a break" (Correct).

instead of

"He ordered that he takes a break." (Incorrect).

Do you use the subjunctive in "day-to-day-language" too or is it restricted to official or even written language? (and is there a phrase "day to day language" ?--Yes, that's a common expression. ) (The subjunctive is often used in every day language, although people often avoid it by using a different construction. Example: He requested that I go = He asked me to go. Look at this site for more examples:
http://grammar.englishclub.com/verbs-subjunctive.htm

[Anonymous]

thanks again :)