View Full Version : Simple past without defined time reference in AE
In BE simple past normally requires a defined finished time reference,
that is either explicitly stated or can at least be derived from the given context.
I guess that without a sufficient time reference in BE you'll probably ask for clarification.
The AE usage of simple past seems to be less restricted.
I've experienced many cases where the time reference was not mentioned and the context did not say much about it either,
e.g. "I can't find my wallet. Did you see it?", or on the phone: "Did you get my e-mail?".
Though I was always tempted to ask for clarification ("When?") more often than not I just went ahead
and took it to mean "recently" or "since we last met, spoke or whatever". How do AE speakers read these sentences?
Is this usage of simple past [as opposed to present perfect] generally accepted in AE or does it sound uneducated?
Would you [as AE speakers] rather say "I can't find my wallet. Have you seen it?", or "Have you gotten my e-mail?"
in these examples. Would there be any difference in meaning?
In BE simple past normally requires a defined finished time reference,
that is either explicitly stated or can at least be derived from the given context.
I guess that without a sufficient time reference in BE you'll probably ask for clarification.
The AE usage of simple past seems to be less restricted.
I've experienced many cases where the time reference was not mentioned and the context did not say much about it either,
e.g. "I can't find my wallet. Did you see it?", or on the phone: "Did you get my e-mail?".
Though I was always tempted to ask for clarification ("When?") more often than not I just went ahead
and took it to mean "recently" or "since we last met, spoke or whatever". How do AE speakers read these sentences?
Is this usage of simple past [as opposed to present perfect] generally accepted in AE or does it sound uneducated?
Would you [as AE speakers] rather say "I can't find my wallet. Have you seen it?", or "Have you gotten my e-mail?"
in these examples. Would there be any difference in meaning?
-- I can't speak at all about British usage of the past tense.
In your specific sentences, I'd probably say:
- I can't find my wallet. Have you seen it?
I think there are probably two reasons I'd choose the present perfect: there certainly is no defined time range, since you gave no implication of when you might have lost it, and even more, whether you have seen it or not has a distinct implication for the present situation, i.e. whether you will find it.
(I wouldn't find "did you see it?" jarring or uneducated, however, if someone asked me that.)
- Did you get my e-mail?
You are clearly referring to a specific piece of e-mail which you sent at a specific time. Presumably the one you are talking to either read it as a concrete specific act in the time since you sent it, or did not.
("Have you gotten my e-mail?" sounds vague and imprecise, since I'm clearly referring to a distinct act. It doesn't sound completely wrong, however.)
Thank you very much.
Another example:
A tries to speaks with B on the phone who isn't around and leaves a message and asks B to call back.
A tells C that he's waiting for B to call back.
Later on C wants an update on this:
1. C: Did B call you back?
2. C: Has B called you back?
3. C: Did B call you back yet?
4. C: Has B called you back yet?
I guess the implied time reference in all these sentences is "at any time up to now",
which "normally" (right, what is normal) calls for present perfect.
But what about the simple past sentences?
Would they be prefered in AE?
Where is the difference in AE?
Does any of these sentences sound unnatural?
Specifically:
Does 2. express more importance than 1.? Is 1. a more neutral way of asking?
What does 3. add to the meaning of 1.?
What does 4. add to the meaning of 2.?
Here's my two cents' worth.
If C is saying when A is waiting for B to call back,
- Hasn't B called you back (yet)? [BrE, AmE]
- Didn't B call you back (yet)? [only AmE]
If C is saying after the moment such as at the next day,
- Did/Didn't B call you back? [BrE, AmE]
Let's wait for Pete's answer!
Ann
_____________
Warning: I'm neither a native speaker nor a teacher; I'm a mere student.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Thank you very much.
Another example:
A tries to speaks with B on the phone who isn't around and leaves a message and asks B to call back.
A tells C that he's waiting for B to call back.
Later on C wants an update on this:
1. C: Did B call you back?
2. C: Has B called you back?
3. C: Did B call you back yet?
4. C: Has B called you back yet?
I guess the implied time reference in all these sentences is "at any time up to now",
which "normally" (right, what is normal) calls for present perfect.
But what about the simple past sentences?
Would they be prefered in AE?
Where is the difference in AE?
Does any of these sentences sound unnatural?
Specifically:
Does 2. express more importance than 1.? Is 1. a more neutral way of asking?
What does 3. add to the meaning of 1.?
What does 4. add to the meaning of 2.?
Again, I must stress that I answer questions from my experience as a lifelong speaker of English in America; I have no specific experience with British English.
I looked up this topic in "The Grammar Book" (Celce-Murcia, …). They make no mention of British/American differences, but I'm not sure whether they generally slant their discussions to American English. They note that in many cases, either tense could be used, and moreover, the "truth value" of both is identical. They claim that you cannot choose between simple past tense and present perfect tense simply by looking at the time the event occurred.
One difference is "remoteness" of the action. If it is "remote", for example the emphasis is on the past event, you choose the simple past. If the emphasis is on a current relevance, how the act affects the present situation, you use the present perfect.
(Sentence 1 or 3: did the event happen?)
(Sentence 2 or 4: are you no longer waiting for the event?)
Another difference: The present perfect is likely to be used if you are introducing a new topic; this is a general act. Often, before you can use simple past, there must be shared information on the topic; then it is a specific act. This probably doesn't apply to the specific sentences in question, but if we have not been discussing phone calls by B, it would be natural if I asked (as a new topic):
- Has B called you? (This is a general question. I'd expect a "yes" or "no".)
If I used simple past in this circumstance, it would sound strange:
- Did B call you? (This specific question would probably get a response like: "What? Was he planning to?")
One more difference in use of the tenses: The book quotes several articles in saying that with the simple past, the stress is on the specific act or event. In contrast, with the present perfect, the stress is on the subject; we are giving a fact, almost descriptive, about the subject, whether he/she has done something.
(Sentence 1 or 3: (again) Did the event happen?)
(Sentence 2 or 4: Did B do the thing he had (presumably) agreed to do?)
I think the word "yet" emphasizes that the time range extends to the present, but moreover, it seems to say that the act was/is expected; if it has not occurred yet, the speaker expects that it will in the future (or at least it ought to).
In summary, I don't think it is as simple as "one is right", "one is preferred". Both are correct and natural, but the emphasis is different, and which to choose depends on the context and what you want to emphasize.
Thanks a lot for your detailed answer, Pete!
I guess this helps.
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