grammatically correct?(3)

[Shinya Maki]

Hello everyone.

We see Sentence 1 below fairly often in English grammar books published in Japan. For the same meaning, is it possible to rewrite the sentence into Sentence 2 below?
1. A whale is not a fish any more than a horse is.
2. A whale is not any more a fish than a horse is.

Best regards,
Shinya Maki

[Temico]

Hello everyone.

We see Sentence 1 below fairly often in English grammar books published in Japan. For the same meaning, is it possible to rewrite the sentence into Sentence 2 below?
1. A whale is not a fish any more than a horse is.
2. A whale is not any more a fish than a horse is.

Best regards,
Shinya Maki

No, the meaning of the sentences differ because sentence 2 implies that a whale was once a fish and is no longer a fish like a horse which was once a fish and is no longer a fish.

[ponpoco256]

No, the meaning of the sentences differ because sentence 2 implies that a whale was once a fish and is no longer a fish like a horse which was once a fish and is no longer a fish.Humm .... May I ask you a question, Temico? Which one do you speak "She is not young any more" or "She is not any more young" when you want to mean that she was once young but now not?

ponpoco

[ponpoco256]

We see Sentence 1 below fairly often in English grammar books published in Japan. For the same meaning, is it possible to rewrite the sentence into Sentence 2 below?
1. A whale is not a fish any more than a horse is.
2. A whale is not any more a fish than a horse is.
Hello Shinya

This so-called "whale's formula" is taught only in Japan and Korea. If you ask something about this kind of collocation to native speakers, most of them will get puzzled. I once tried to find the reasons why such a funny thing happened in the English education in Japanese schools, but to no avail. I suppose it started when some professor from England taught the collocation to Japanese elite students in Meiji Era just to have fun by getting them confused.

In current English, the collocation is of rare use, not to say obsolete. Formally, it should be "A whale is no more a fish than a horse is (a fish)". This can be formulated as "X is no more Y than A is B". It can be analyzed as an expression comes from a deep structure (a sentence you get in your mind) of "<X is Y> is nothing more than <A is B>" or "<X is Y> is equal to <A is B>". In another words, "X is no more Y than A is B" is saying "<X is Y> is as untrue as <A is B>". In a colloquial version, it is spoken like "A whale is not a fish any more than a horse is (a fish)", which you present in the question. Some non-native speakers would mistake that the phrase "no more" in the formal version could be rephrased as "not any more", and they might speak "A whale is not any more a fish than a horse is (a fish)" instead, but this speech is completely wrong.

ponpoco

[Temico]

Humm .... May I ask you a question, Temico? Which one do you speak "She is not young any more" or "She is not any more young" when you want to mean that she was once young but now not?

ponpoco

"speak"?? FYI, I speak several languages. If you meant, "which one would you use.......?", then, in that case, I'd use the correct one. Which one do you think is the correct one and why, may I ask?

While you are contemplating, if that's what you are doing, allow me to give you two sentences to help you along:-

a) "She is not young any more" = "She is no longer young."
b) "She is not any more young"er than that old hag down the street."

[ponpoco256]

Which one do you mean by "the correct one"? May I ask?

ponpoco

[ponpoco256]

b) "She is not any more young"er than that old hag down the street." "More younger"? Is this a Hong Kong English? I'm sorry I can't get you here.

ponpoco

[Temico]

Which one do you mean by "the correct one"? May I ask?

ponpoco

Wouldn't it be more convincing for you if you asked your "Doraemon" instead??

[ponpoco256]

My teacher Doraemon told me "She is not any more young" sounds a bit weird to him. So I'm asking you if you would use this collocation.

ponpoco

[Temico]

"More younger"? Is this a Hong Kong English? I'm sorry I can't get you here. Ahaha

ponpoco

You should ask your "Doraemon" about that too and remember, the whole phrase is "not any more younger" and not your twisted Japanese version "more younger".

Here's a sentence to help you along:-
"She is not any more smarter than the average student."

[ponpoco256]

You should ask your "Doraemon" about that too and remember, the whole phrase is "not any more younger" and not your twisted Japanese version "more younger".

Here's a sentence to help you along:-
"She is not any more smarter than the average student."But no Google hit for "She is not any more younger than …". I'm afraid it might be one of many idiosyncratic languages you are speaking.

ponpoco

[PS] "Is not any more smarter" also got nothing googlily.

[Temico]

But no Google hit for "She is not any more younger than …". I'm afraid it might be one of many idiosyncratic languages you are speaking.

ponpoco

[PS] "Is not any more smarter" also got nothing googlily(ha ha ha ha....must be a "googed" lily indeed!).

Ha ha ha....if you are going to rely on your "Doraemon" Google hits to learn/teach English, you might as well rely on your horoscope!!!!

[ponpoco256]

Please write a lot online, Temico, then I'll find your idiosyncratic languages on Google in future. Cheer!

ponpoco

[Temico]

Please write a lot online, Temico, then I'll find your idiosyncratic languages on Google in future. Cheer!

ponpoco

Cheer!

Ha ha ha.....I am "sure" glad that I didn't have to put up with a Japanese "Doraemon" for an English teacher!!!

[ponpoco256]

Boys, remember that a googlable maxim says "If knowledge is power, then God is Google".

ponpoco

[Temico]

Boys, remember that a googlable maxim says "If knowledge is power, then God is Google".

ponpoco

Ha ha ha........ what else can one expect from a Japanese "Doraemon" gone haywire!!