paragraph learning (1)

[henz988]

Teachers,
The following paragraph is a translation of mine. I hope you would underline those unnatural and even wrong sentences or expressions. And I'm even more indebted to all the kind-hearted people who would have time to provide me with an improved version. You can simply write another version based on the meaning of this one.

Mutual benefits
Mr. X, a literature member for years, felt rather deserted for not being able to be a hit writer. Having made a convoluted pass at a famous critic, Mr. Y, he presented him heavy gifts first and then feasted him later. Mr. Y, moved by his yearning and appreciated his hospitality, promised him generously: “I shall write recommending articles praising your works to key newspapers and journals. It’s really not fair that they are treated cold, Er, their merits ……”
Mr. A shaked his head and waved his hands in no time before Mr. B finished: “Oh. No, please. Instead, I desire you criticize them down to the earth just-wordedly. According to my experience for decades, all the works criticized by you have become hit ones at home and some have even got their claims for fame abroad. Further more, you can gain more fame and profits through your brickbats; it’s really 'oppose each other but also complement each other and bring out the best in each other' as people say.”

Many thanks in advance.
Henz

[henz988]

Please, lend me your hand!:o

[Pete]

Mutual benefits
Mr. X, a literature member 1 for years, felt rather deserted 2 for not being able to be a hit writer. Having made 3 a convoluted 4 pass at a famous critic, Mr. Y, he presented him heavy 5 gifts first and then 6 feasted him later. Mr. Y, moved by his yearning and appreciated 7 his hospitality, promised him generously: “I shall write recommending articles 8 praising your works to 9 key newspapers and journals. It’s really not fair that they are treated cold 10, Er, their merits ……”

Mr. A shaked his head and waved his hands in no time before Mr. B finished: “Oh. No, please. Instead, I desire you criticize them down to the earth just-wordedly. According to my experience for decades, all the works criticized by you have become hit ones at home and some have even got their claims for fame abroad. Further more, you can gain more fame and profits through your brickbats; it’s really 'oppose each other but also complement each other and bring out the best in each other' as people say.”


I think the main reason you didn't get a response is that there are so many errors. I'll make some comments about the first paragraph. After that, I'm not sure the relationship between the people called X and Y in the first part and the different people called A and B in the second.

1- Literature means written works; a person can't be a member of literature. Try: "A member of literary society".

2- A person feels deserted if people were with him at one time, and later they leave. Maybe you mean "depressed".

3- "Having made" says he made the pass before he presented the gifts, etc. I think you mean that giving the gifts is part of the pass. Use, "Making".

4- "Convoluted" doesn't fit. Maybe "extensive"?

5- A "heavy gift" would be something like a lead weight. Try "expensive".

6- Omit either "then" or "later". The redundancy sounds awkward.

7- "Moved" is fine; it is a passive idea. "Appreciated" is wrong, as it is an active idea; use the present participle, "appreciating".

8- "Recommending articles" doesn't sound natural. Try, "positive reviews".

9- You write letters "to" someone or "to" a newspaper or magazine. You write articles "for" or "in" a newspaper or magazine.

10- "Coldly" doesn't fit here. Maybe "badly". Or "Received poorly".

The rest has many more errors. I'd say you need to continue your study of English. Do a lot of reading to learn the use of many words and phrases. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that you wrote this using words that you found in a dictionary but are not really familiar with.

[henz988]

Hi Pete.

I feel it very hard for oneself to find out his own errors--even the simplest ones, sometimes. Many of us Chinese students are not afraid to do grammar exercises,but writting is another matter.For one thing,we learn the language mainly from books,even dictionaries as you point out. We don't have much opportunities to communicate with native speakers directly.For another, our English teachers are Chinese too,what's worse, they usually don't have much time to proof-read our writing exercises, we usually have 45 students a class.
Transltion is more difficult, for the native language is disturbing me all the time while I'm doing such exercises.
I am not afraid of making mistakes,and I belive translation is the best way to learn written English well.
Your words are illuminating, I should post more short ones here from now on.

Thanks a million.
henz

[JRiddy]

Hi Pete.

I feel it very hard for oneself to find out his own errors--even the simplest ones, sometimes. Many of us Chinese students are not afraid to do grammar exercises,but writting is another matter.For one thing,we learn the language mainly from books,even dictionaries as you point out. We don't have much opportunities to communicate with native speakers directly.For another, our English teachers are Chinese too,what's worse, they usually don't have much time to proof-read our writing exercises, we usually have 45 students a class.
Transltion is more difficult, for the native language is disturbing me all the time while I'm doing such exercises.
I am not afraid of making mistakes,and I belive translation is the best way to learn written English well.
Your words are illuminating, I should post more short ones here from now on.

Thanks a million.
henz

A word of encouragement: What I quoted--that was really good English. It had a few minor errors, but I could understand the whole thing very well. You also avoided many of the mistakes that are characteristic of Chinese speakers using English.

I find it interesting that the post that you wrote was clearer than your translation at the top of the page. Maybe when you write in English instead of translating into English, your native language disturbs you less. If that's the case, try to translate whole thoughts, instead of sentences. You might find your English rapidly improving.

[Pete]

Hi Pete.

I feel it very hard for oneself to find out his own errors--even the simplest ones, sometimes. Many of us Chinese students are not afraid to do grammar exercises,but writting is another matter.For one thing,we learn the language mainly from books,even dictionaries as you point out. We don't have much opportunities to communicate with native speakers directly.For another, our English teachers are Chinese too,what's worse, they usually don't have much time to proof-read our writing exercises, we usually have 45 students a class.
Transltion is more difficult, for the native language is disturbing me all the time while I'm doing such exercises.
I am not afraid of making mistakes,and I belive translation is the best way to learn written English well.
Your words are illuminating, I should post more short ones here from now on.

Thanks a million.
henz
(I had written the following response before I saw JRiddy's comment that says much the same thing.)

I don't think that translation is really the best way to learn to write English. I think that when you have the Chinese sitting in front of you, the tendency that you mention for Chinese to get in the way is especially likely to happen. The note that you wrote explaining your problems with English, while not perfect, was much clearer, much easier to understand than the paragraph about the author and the critic. I still think that reading as much English as possible is very important. Think about the phrases in the English that you read. Think about how you might be able to write exactly the same thing. Then when you try to write in English, try not to phrase it in Chinese first, but think how to use the English that you know to say what you want to communicate.

However, I'm not at all expert in learning to write a foreign language. (As a native speaker, I am fairly good at writing English, but that's not the same thing.) I hope that some other students of English as a foreign language, possibly some who have experienced the problems that you are having, will give you more advice.

Of course we will be glad to help correct your sentences here. You will get faster responses if you can submit one or two sentences at a time. Good luck with your studies.

[danmahaffey]

(I had written the following response before I saw JRiddy's comment that says much the same thing.)

I don't think that translation is really the best way to learn to write English. I think that when you have the Chinese sitting in front of you, the tendency that you mention for Chinese to get in the way is especially likely to happen. The note that you wrote explaining your problems with English, while not perfect, was much clearer, much easier to understand than the paragraph about the author and the critic. I still think that reading as much English as possible is very important. Think about the phrases in the English that you read. Think about how you might be able to write exactly the same thing. Then when you try to write in English, try not to phrase it in Chinese first, but think how to use the English that you know to say what you want to communicate.

However, I'm not at all expert in learning to write a foreign language. (As a native speaker, I am fairly good at writing English, but that's not the same thing.) I hope that some other students of English as a foreign language, possibly some who have experienced the problems that you are having, will give you more advice.

Of course we will be glad to help correct your sentences here. You will get faster responses if you can submit one or two sentences at a time. Good luck with your studies.Henz,
As someone who has studied and spoken more than two foreign languages, I can echo what Pete and JRiddy have said. Learn to think words and form sentence parts in the language you are learning. Try not to wonder how to turn your native language into English. It really works. And it is scary fun!:D

[henz988]

Hi Dan,
Long time no see!
I really feel embarrassed :o with so many glaring errors here, but I feel better when I hear your laughter. An ESL student will make mistakes after all.

Thank you Pete, I have learned a lot from this paragraph in fact.
And especially, thank you JRiddy, for your encouragement. It is the first time that I have had your teaching. I hope you will help me more!

Henz