another question about "preposition."

[liuchunsheng123456]

The preposition is hard to handle .
I have another question puzzules me a lot .
It is
Time is up . Up the hill .
The race is on . a painting on the wall.
The patient is up and about . a book about cats .
Is there anybody in ? dressed in rags .

These prepositions can used like this ,( time is up ) no nouns behind them , but other prepositions we used often (such as, with ,for ,at, to ,from,of ) don't have this form ,could you explain why ? Does something be omitted behind them ? if any, what are they ?

Let me have a guess first . The race is on (the process )
looking forward to your wonderful answer .

[oishii]

Hi there liuchunsheng123456,

I've noticed that in each instance, you compared a phrase where the word causing you confusion is used in an idiom in contrast to a phrase where its literal meaning is to be understood.

Please note the definition of an idiom...
From Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiom) Wikipedia: An idiom is an expression (i.e. term or phrase) whose meaning cannot be deduced from the literal definitions and the arrangement of its parts, but refers instead to a figurative meaning that is known only through conventional use. In linguistics, idioms are widely assumed to be figures of speech that contradict the principle of compositionality, however some debate has recently arisen on this subject.

In the English expression to kick the bucket, a listener knowing only the meaning of kick and bucket would be unable to deduce the expression's actual meaning, which is to die. Although kick the bucket can refer literally to the act of striking a bucket with a foot, native speakers rarely use it that way.

Idioms hence tend to confuse those not already familiar with them; students of a new language must learn its idiomatic expressions the way they learn its other vocabulary. In fact many natural language words have idiomatic origins, but have been sufficiently assimilated so that their figurative senses have been lost.


I think this may be the source of the confusion, liuchunsheng123456.

"Time is up" is an idiom meaning that there is no more time left to complete a task and you should not consider the literatal meaning of 'up' which usually refers to a location in space.

The same is true for 'The race is on' and 'up and about'. These words (on, up, and about) are being used idiomatically in these instances.

In the final sentences...
'Is there anybody in ? dressed in rags'
... I think 'in' is used as a preposition in both cases.

Hope this explanation was of some help.


.

[liuchunsheng123456]

hi , oishii . thank you very much . actually , i am not confused by the meaning of the sentence ,but the construction of the sentence . English is a language that has its own order ,i really want to find it out .
Let's wait for some answers .
thank you all the same .

[oishii]

hi , oishii . thank you very much . actually , i am not confused by the meaning of the sentence ,but the construction of the sentence . English is a language that has its own order ,i really want to find it out .
Let's wait for some answers .
thank you all the same .


You're welcome.. and...

Ok... but will just point out again, that there may not be a rule as to why these words are used in this particular order, because the prepositions you pointed out are being used in idioms which, as the definition from Wikipedia highlighted, do not necessarily follow particular rules for syntax (word order) or literal meaning.

Just realised that 'Is there anybody in ? is also idiomatic. So, again, the order of the words in the sentence may not follow expected rules for word placement.


.

[Rusty]

Let's wait for some answers .
Hi liuchungshen: There is very little that I can add to Oishii's excellent answer.
Time is up. (Idiomatic)
Up the hill. (Direction)
The race is on. (Idiomatic).
a painting on the wall. (Location).
The patient is up and about. (This means the patient is up from his bed and moving about/around).
a book about cats. (Prepositional phrase modifying book).
Is there anybody in ? (Meaning: is there anyone in that location?)
dressed in rags. (Prepositional phrase. In + noun collocates with such words as: dressed, clothed, shrouded, wrapped).

[Alireza]

In the final sentences...
'Is there anybody in ? dressed in rags'
... I think 'in' is used as a preposition in both cases.




Hi,
Excuse me for jumping in.

'Is there anybody in?'
Here I think "in" is used as an adverb.

[liuchunsheng123456]

i appreciate all the excellent answers ,and agree with alireza 's opinon ,
" is there anybody in ?" "in " is a adverb here. It's function equals a prepositional phrase " in the room " , so i asked this kind of question .