subjunctive

[sejpdw]

"Not everyone has the same talents, gifts, or abilities. Each of us is created in a unique way. Our personalities are as diverse as the universe itself. Yet we can, by using what we have to the fullest, stand out from the crowd. Thomas Edison was almost deaf, yet he didn't spend his time attempting to learn how to hear. Instead he focused on his ability to think, organize and create. His accomplishments speak well for his decision to build on the qualities he possessed. "If we did all the things we were capable of doing," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves."

I think in the last sentence, "did" and "would surprise" was used because of subjunctive. How about "were capable"? I think "are capable" is a proper expression in this sentence because it refers to the fact.

[SomeOne]

"If we did all the things we were capable of doing," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves."

I think in the last sentence, "did" and "would surprise" was used because of subjunctive. How about "were capable"? I think "are capable" is a proper expression in this sentence because it refers to the fact.

Here is the expanded version of the last sentence:

"If we did all the things, that (which) we were capable of doing (= able to do)," said Edision, "then we would greatly surprise ourselves."

So, i think the problenm is that this phrase can be understood in two slightly different ways:

1) If we (always) did all the things we ARE capable of doing, we would..

and

2) If we (already) did all the things we WERE capable of doing, we would..

I hope I'm right (correct me if I'm not) and I'll be glad if it helps you to understand the meaning of that phrase. :)

[Rusty]

"Not everyone has the same talents, gifts, or abilities. Each of us is created in a unique way. Our personalities are as diverse as the universe itself. Yet we can, by using what we have to the fullest, stand out from the crowd. Thomas Edison was almost deaf, yet he didn't spend his time attempting to learn how to hear. Instead he focused on his ability to think, organize and create. His accomplishments speak well for his decision to build on the qualities he possessed. "If we did all the things we were capable of doing," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves."

I think in the last sentence, "did" and "would surprise" was used because of subjunctive. How about "were capable"? I think "are capable" is a proper expression in this sentence because it refers to the fact.
In a sentence with one present unreal condition and one result, the if-clause has a verb in the past tense and the result-clause has would + bare infinitive.
If we did the things we would surprise ourselves.
Look here (http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/presentconditional.html#presentunreal)for more details.

"If we did all the things we were capable of doing," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves."

The sentence above has two conditions: 1) do the things, 2) be capable.
If both conditions are unreal, that is,
"If we did all the things and if we were capable of doing them," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves," did...were....would is correct.

If the first condition is unreal and the second is real, that is,
"If we did all the things we are capable of doing," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves," did...are...would is correct.

[SomeOne]

The sentence above has two conditions: 1) do the things, 2) be capable.
If both conditions are unreal, that is,
"If we did all the things and if we were capable of doing them," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves," did...were....would is correct.

Excuse me, I don't understand, how can the 2nd condition in this sentence be unreal if we talk about doing all the things? Let me explain my version.


1) There are some things in our everyday life. We are capable of doing them all every time they appear. And if we do (or did?) all that things every time they appear(ed) (though we know, that we don't and we didn't), we would surprise ourselves.

2) There were some things in the past. We were capable of doing them all then. And if we did them (if we did all that things we were able to do in the past, but as we already know, we haven't done at least some of them) we would surprise ourselves.

I mean, I think, that in both sentences we see real conditions, but in the 1st sentence it is real for any moment from the time when one of these things appeared upto the moment of speach, while in the 2nd one it was real only for the moment this thing appeared (and before the time we chose to do it or not). But it makes no sense as we talk about those things in the past and by the time they happened both conditions were real.

Am I wrong?

[SomeOne]

I think it will be better if I adduce an example. Let's imagine such a situation:

Long ago an old lady was going along the street carrying two heavy bags.

Me and my friend saw this.

We both were able to help her.

But we didn't do that.

And if we did help her, the world would become a bit better.

i.e.:

If we did, what we were able to do (and as I mentioned above, we were able to help her), the world would become a bit better.

I mean, I think, "we were able" is not a condition here, it's a statement.

Am I wrong?

Thanks a lot in advance.

[Rusty]

I agree with sejpdw's opinion:
I think "are capable" is a proper expression in this sentence because it refers to the fact.
(Although the quote appears to be in the past, "said Edision," it is not reported speech, but rather a present-time utterance. "if we did...., ...we would..." complies with the Present Unreal Condition rule. "We are capable..." is a reality at the time Edision speaks).

1) "If we did all the things and if we were capable of doing them," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves," did...were....would is correct.
(This explanation could justify the use of "were," but it is not what the author meant. The author put the wrong word in Edision's mouth).

Now, about the old lady –
If you and your friend had helped the old lady, as you were able to do at that time, the world would be a better place now. This is a mixed conditional, as seen here. (http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/mixedconditional.html)
Of course, the world would have been a better place then, too. This is a past unreal conditional sentence, as seen here. (http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/pastconditional.html)

[SomeOne]

I agree with sejpdw's opinion:

(Although the quote appears to be in the past, "said Edision," it is not reported speech, but rather a present-time utterance. "if we did...., ...we would..." complies with the Present Unreal Condition rule. "We are capable..." is a reality at the time Edision speaks).

1) "If we did all the things and if we were capable of doing them," said Edision, "we would greatly surprise ourselves," did...were....would is correct.
(This explanation could justify the use of "were," but it is not what the author meant. The author put the wrong word in Edision's mouth).

Now, about the old lady –
If you and your friend had helped the old lady, as you were able to do at that time, the world would be a better place now. This is a mixed conditional, as seen here. (http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/mixedconditional.html)
Of course, the world would have been a better place then, too. This is a past unreal conditional sentence, as seen here. (http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/pastconditional.html)


Oops.. My apologies, Rusty, I've foolishly mixed Present and Past Unreal Conditionals up. Feel very ashamed of it. :o

[Rusty]

Oops.. My apologies, Rusty, I've foolishly mixed Present and Past Unreal Conditionals up. Feel very ashamed of it. :o
This one threw me off the track, too, SomeOne, so I feel a little red faced as well. Some errors sound so "natural" that they slip by.